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  • Why good husbands have affairs.....

    From The Times
    June 12, 2008

    Why good husbands have affairs

    It seems that what men judge to be logical and stoic behaviour can often seem callous and even immoral to women
    Mark Jones

    The American counsellor, Mira Kirshenbaum, has written a book called When Good People Have Affairs. It has caused a huge fuss by daring to suggest that long term affairs can be the salvation of a relationship. Kirshenbaum's challenge is that, whatever we say at the altar, there is no finite right or wrong in relationships, just behaviour that works and behaviour that doesn't. The question is - whose behaviour? There is a growing belief that men and women think that they are using the same emotional and ethical software, when in reality they are operating on completely different platforms.

    Let's take the most obvious split in behaviour that the revelation of an affair brings out. Men are far more prone to compartmentalise. They file experiences and relationships in different places with never any reason to confuse them.

    The darker side is at the heart of one of the most intriguing films to appear in recent years. In Jindabyne, by the Australian director Ray Lawrence, a group of male friends go on a fishing trip. On the first night they find the dead, naked body of a young woman in the river. They secure the body with a line, then carry on with their trip. They tell the police when they get home. The rest of the film deals with the emotional fall-out as the townspeople and their own partners turn on the men.

    The film is based on a Raymond Carver short story, So Much Water So Close to Home. The Carver tale turns on an outburst from one of the men, Stuart: “Goddamn it, why can't people mind their own business? Tell me what I did wrong and I'll listen!” Let's imagine a snap poll of readers. Hands up who can tell Stuart what he did wrong? I'm pretty confident that 100 per cent of females will be able to say what he did. So will a good percentage of males.
    But there will be also be many men who share Stuart's bemusement.

    Look at the facts. The men in the fishing party did not kill the girl. They did nothing to the body other than to make it secure. They had a right to carry on with their trip and it would have made no difference reporting the death immediately.Stuart's wife watches in silent fury as he tries to explain: “He gives me what he thinks is a meaningful look. ‘She was dead,' he says. ‘And I'm as sorry as anyone else. But she was dead'.”

    Helen Haste, a visiting professor of psychology at Harvard, analyses the scene in terms of the different approaches that males and females have to concepts such as “wrong”. Men are more comfortable with the abstract and the finite. So Stuart's “right” to continue his trip is inalienable. And if someone is dead, they self-evidently don't have the same rights as the living. For Stuart's wife, the issue is just as clear-cut.

    Professor Haste says: “Women think in terms of relationships. She wants to drag out an emotional response. So how did they relate to the dead woman - and how did they relate to the other men in the group?” Stuart has sex with his wife before he tells her about the body: it's a dramatic evocation of men's ability to put experiences into different boxes.
    I agree that Stuart did wrong. But I understand why he did: there have been too many occasions when I have been caught in the kind of tight space that Carver describes. She wants to know why I didn't say something (about that trip, that lunch). I say something lame such as it wasn't relevant. The defence, which is never good enough for any woman, is that I didn't lie. I just didn't volunteer the information. There's a difference.

    As for relating to other men - this is where men are so often a disappointment. Women like you playing golf with your best mate because it is a great opportunity to talk, and that is considered A Good Thing. The truth is, you talk mainly about golf. Male bonding is a phrase that women like to use, but it doesn't mean much. You go fishing to fish, play football to play football. Let's not fly to Mars and Venus, or stray into Emotional Intelligence. Let's go back to this issue of gender and ethics and the feminist debates that have enlivened academic life. The Ethics of Care is a phrase associated with the work of the American psychologist, Susan Gilligan, who worked with the cognitive psychologist, Lawrence Kohlberg. The two parted company when Gilligan took issue with Kohlberg's studies, which showed that boys reach a higher level of moral development than girls. She questioned the very abstractions that the male establishment took for granted - the so-called Ethics of Justice. Gilligan's alternative ethics, expressed in her influential work In a Different Voice (1982), put relationships and community at the centre of women's moral universe.
    Gilligan's own research methods have since been questioned, often by more radical feminists. But the opposing ethical systems that she depicts do give us a useful lens through which to see the world. Look, most obviously, at Diana, Princess of Wales. According to the ethics of justice, her sins (adultery, for example) were no better or worse than her husband's. Where she put herself beyond the pale was by betraying principles that went far deeper than an individual's emotional problems. She dared to use the pronoun “I” in place of the royal “we” or the equally royal “one”.

    Yet the public saw a woman with an incredibly strong sense of right and wrong. The film The Queen shows in beautiful detail what happened when the British people chose those female values over male stoicism. And it's why Gordon Brown has to take a direct interest in, say, the Madeleine McCann case.

    There's a very useful personality test that you can do, based on the work of two female Jungian psychologists, Katharine Cook Briggs and her daughter, Isabel Briggs Myers. The Myers-Briggs Type Indicator assesses how you are likely to relate to others based on four dichotomies (extraversion/introversion; sensing/intuition; thinking/feeling; judging/perceiving). I've been Myers-Briggsed a few times with senior people at work, and it's the T/F axis (thinking/feeling) dichotomy that usually separates the boys from the girls.

    Both strive to make rational decisions. But high Fs will think of the effect that this decision has on people: they are often women. High Ts - almost always male - will make that decision based on what's logical. Most of us combine both attributes - I'm a T with strong F tendencies. But I think that the Ts, the Edwardian writers and the compartmentalisers, do get an unfairly bad press.

    Here's a thought. In this piece, I haven't brought in any personal experiences. A female writer would probably have been less shy. Why am I? Self-protection, I suppose. But there's an Edwardian voice in my head saying that it won't do to bandy a woman's name.
    As for keeping information back, sometimes I've done that out of a sense of chivalry. This old word is behind more quirks of male behaviour than you'd expect. Sometimes you keep back information from women because you think it might hurt them. Most say that's the opposite of what they want, that I've got some misplaced male idea of protecting them. But there are still women who are all for a little reserve and discretion on the male side.

    One, interestingly, is Mira Kirshenbaum. Owning up to an affair, she writes is totally destructive. “Honesty is all very well, but not when it comes at the price of your partner's trust and peace of mind.”

    Polls showed that women eventually got fed up with Tony Blair empathising with all and sundry. In Graham Greene's Latin American novels, machismo does not mean swagger and display but its opposite: taciturnity and forbearance. Professor Haste believes that we continue to bring up our boys to admire and adopt that kind of machismo - and this may be a more useful way of explaining how we see the world differently.

    So, blokes: macho, chivalrous or just emotionally constipated and naturally devious? It's hard to win when you aren't sure of the rules. Just tell us what we're doing wrong and we will listen.

    Do you think more like a male or female?

    1 A young intern in a blue dress is attracted to you, and performs what the tabloid press refer to as “a sex act”. You are questioned as to the nature of your relationship. Do you:

    A: Break down in tears and admit your failings as a husband, father and leader
    B: Reply that you “did not have sexual relations with that woman”. Technically, you are not lying

    2 You are a 16th-century king of England and married to a young woman who is too flirtatious with your courtiers. Do you:
    A: Sit her down and gently tell her that her behaviour hurts you and is wrong
    B: Shout: “Off with her head!”

    3 You are a well-known actress, let’s call you Sarah JP (above), and a prominent designer has lent you a dress. It transpires that the same dress was worn by someone else on a previous occasion. Do you:
    A: Denounce the fashion designer as “unethical and disappointing”
    B: Quietly congratulate yourself for choosing a popular outfit. Fashion can be such a minefield nowadays

    Mostly A's: You reason like a female. This may be good for your relationships, but does it always work?
    Mostly B's: You reason like a male. You may be in the right, but you may not be very nice.

  • See more....

    http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/families/article4374518.ece

  • I had sex with my brother but I don't feel guilty...

    Quote

    From The Times
    July 15, 2008

    I had sex with my brother but I don't feel guilty

    A woman slept with her sibling for years and has good memories. Not many people understand their relationship, she says

    Strangely enough, Daniel's wedding day didn't upset me at all. It was his 30th birthday six months later which really got to me, as he stood there with his wife Alison while they greeted the guests. I can honestly say that that was the only time when I felt real envy and wished desperately that it was me standing beside him, arms round each other as we showed the world how much we loved each other.

    It's not as if I'm not allowed to love Daniel, but the way we feel about each other isn't something that we can share easily with anyone else. Daniel is my brother, but since I was 14 we've had a sexual relationship - and that's not something that many people would feel comfortable with.

    I've only ever spoken about this once before, and even then it was very much in the abstract. While I was still at university a friend had a major misunderstanding with a relatively new boyfriend when one of his friends had reported back to him that he'd seen her hugging and kissing another man in the union bar. She was firstly annoyed at being questioned and became even more exasperated when she explained that the man in question was her brother, as her boyfriend refused to believe her. Their loud discussion took place in the union with an interested audience, until he finally stamped out in fury, still refusing to believe her. As she flounced back to join us she made a remark about preferring her brother to any other man, whereupon one of the crowd said “Yuck, how pervy!” As she sat down beside me she muttered something like “It's not that strange,” and three or four drinks later I quietly asked her what she'd meant.

    Fuelled by drink or maybe just rage, she started talking in a very intense but hushed way about how close siblings could be, going on to say that she was sure that many people experimented sexually with them as they grew up and then simply grew out of it. She said it was like practising your social skills on your family and so long as it was mutual, she couldn't see the harm. I didn't say much - partly because I couldn't believe that I'd met someone who seemed to be like me - and she very quickly clammed up and moved over to talk to someone else and never brought up the subject again.

    I think the only reason that I'm talking about it now is to emphasise that I truly believe that she was right - it doesn't happen to everyone but it happens to some, and I don't want to be made to feel guilty about it. Incest is so often spoken about in the same breath as abuse, but if you're close in age and equal in relationship terms then it's entirely different. Of course abuse happens, but it can happen in any sexual relationship and there's an expectation that a family member would never hurt you in the way that someone else could. There's no comparison between siblings close in age having sexual feelings and contact and an adult forcing a younger member of the family to do something they neither understand nor want to be involved in. I think incest is traditionally seen as bad, but in some cultures that isn't the case. When I was small I asked a Sunday school teacher if Adam and Eve's children married each other since they were the first people on earth. She just laughed and didn't reply. Having children with Daniel was never an issue and we were always careful about contraception.
    All my memories of my relationship with Daniel are good. He's only a year older than me and we've always been close, especially since we always seemed to be full of nonsense compared with our older sister Jane. She's four years older than Daniel and very studious and focused, while he's bursting with fun and light-hearted enthusiasm. I've adored him for as long as I can remember and my parents were always delighted by our closeness when we were small. We shared friends and moved happily in the same social circles, so I could never understand girls who didn't get on with their brothers.
    Things changed when I was 14. I had spent hours getting ready for my first Christmas dance when I knocked on Daniel's bedroom door. It's a dodgy age as you're trying to come to terms with your developing body and worry endlessly about how you look, so his wolf whistle was very welcome as he swept me into his arms and we pirouetted, laughing, around the room, before going downstairs to show off our finery to our parents and Jane.
    Daniel's appreciation really helped my confidence and I was aware of him smiling approvingly as boy after boy asked me up to dance, though my greatest pleasure was when he claimed me for the last dance. We giggled home to gossip and hot chocolate with our parents and by the next day all the finery was discarded and life was back to normal.
    On New Year's Eve Daniel went to a party and by the time he got home I was already asleep. I was extremely sleepy when he crept into my room and curled up on my bed, which was something we'd both done for years, especially if we wanted to share some snippet of gossip. When he started stroking my hair and face it was a surprise, but I could feel myself drifting pleasurably back to sleep as he caressed me gently. Then I became aware of his hand drifting lower and suddenly I was wide awake as he stroked my neck and started sliding his hand down my vest top. I wasn't scared but I was surprised as he started stroking me, though my overriding sensation was one of sheer pleasure. I instinctively lifted my mouth to his as he kissed me and then he hugged me very tightly and left.

    I lay in complete confusion with my mind racing and my body totally turned on. All the sex education I'd had said that this was wrong, that it was abuse and incest. But it hadn't felt wrong and I certainly hadn't felt forced. Rather, I felt that Daniel had stopped long before I'd wanted him to. It was hours before I finally fell asleep but I was sure of two things - that I'd really enjoyed it and I still adored my brother.

    The next morning it was clear that Daniel had a hangover but as he grinned up at me from his prone position on the couch there was no awkwardness or regret between us. We didn't discuss what had happened, but went for a long walk that afternoon with Jane and the dog and everything felt the same, down to Jane chiding us about being irresponsible about leaving our parents to do all the tidying up after new year's dinner.

    Over the next few years we had sexual encounters every six months or so, each time going farther and farther until I was 17, when we had full sex for the first time. We both went out with other people and there was never any jealousy, although I found it hard to be physically intimate with anyone else. Part of that was because sex with Daniel was so amazing that I had no patience for all the fumbling that seemed to happen with other boys. The sex was never pre-planned, but just always seemed to happen when there was no chance of being discovered.

    Every so often I would wonder what people would think if they found out, especially our parents, but it always felt so right and was so exciting that these concerns were never enough to stop me. Sometimes he initiated sex and sometimes I did, but in between times our relationship was as easy, relaxed and affectionate as ever, with the incredible passion of each encounter quietly banked away until the next time.

    I missed Daniel when he went to university, but went to stay with him every three months or so. Sometimes we would have sex and at other times neither of us seemed interested. By the time he met Alison he was working and I was a student, and I knew that this relationship was different, but it still came as a shock when he told me he wanted to marry her. However, I was more shocked when he said: “You only have to say and I won't marry her, but then I want us to stay together and not see anyone else. We could be the old boring brother and sister who never got married, but ended up sharing a house because no one else would have them! I know this is meant to be wrong but I've never felt anything so right.” This echoed everything that I've thought about our incestuous relationship over the years. After hours of discussion we agreed that it was time to stop the sexual side of our relationship and also decided that telling anyone else was a bad idea, parting in tears afterwards.

    I know Daniel loves Alison, but she's very wary of me. I'm pretty sure that she doesn't see me as a sexual threat, but she thinks of me as an emotional rival and I suppose she's right. It's not unusual - there are countless people dealing with all the emotions that result from partners becoming officially family.

    I have wondered if there will ever come a time when I'll look back on my relationship with Daniel in disgust, but I don't think so. Everyone has relationships where the sexual element has ended but a great friendship remains, and that's as good a way as any of summing up what's happened with us. Daniel has a unique place in my affections, as I do with him, and that will never change.

    As an academic I have a tendency to draw logical conclusions. I like to see a pattern and resolution, so it does pain me that what appears so lovely and natural to me would be regarded as abhorrent by most people. It's not my subject, but I would be really interested to see a study on incest done on these terms, moving it away entirely from the concept of abuse. However, I simply cannot imagine that many people are happy to talk about it and I certainly wouldn't put my family through hell by being the first to go public.

    Three months ago I met Derek and I think this is going to be a lasting relationship. The sex is certainly amazing and he's a warm and lovely man, so I have high hopes for this. The trouble with having someone like Daniel in your life is that it leaves you with very high expectations, but it's hard knowing that the one person you love above everything is out of bounds. Perhaps worst of all is the fact that you can't tell anyone, as his or her disgust would ruin everything.
    Names have been changed. As told to Joan McFaddenUnquote

  • Agony and Ecstasy

  • title-4444386

    Having doubts about your partner's fidelity causes stress, worry, insecurity and upset. It is often the 'not knowing', that is the worst symptom. By carrying out discreet surveillance we can ascertain beyond doubt if infidelity or adultery is taking place.

    Do you have concerns regarding:

    Extra Marital Relationship
    Cheating Partner
    Unfaithful Spouse
    Divorce Settlement
    Proof of Cohabitation?

    Where are they? Who are they meeting? What are they doing?

    Infidelity and Divorce

    Divorce investigations and infidelity investigations can help you determine whether your spouse or partner is unfaithful. With more than 85% of women, and 80% of men correct in their suspicions about their partner’s unfaithfulness, the truth is that if you have a sneaking suspicion, you may be right, and an investigator can tell you for sure. Rest assured that private investigators are very discreet about trailing unfaithful spouses. They can even provide you with visual or audio evidence if that is what you need to put your mind at ease. Private investigators deal with hundreds of these cases each year and can help you find out what you need to know.
    The Effects of Infidelity!

    Marital Infidelity (Sexual Unfaithfulness, Adultery, Extra-martial Affairs) can have a significant impact not only on the spouse or loved one but the entire family. In addition to the emotional scars that are inflicted upon the victim. Victims often are exposed to significant health risks, the longer the infidelity goes undetected.

    The sooner victims can determine that their spouse is cheating, the quicker the victims can move on with their lives. Research has demonstrated that marital infidelity, once an act mainly committed primarily by men, is a behaviour that is being repeated frequently by women.

    It is important to realise that cheating spouses are not restricted by gender or age. We discovered that cheaters are young and old.
    Here is basic some facts about gender based marital infidelity:

    It is committed almost as often by women as their male counterparts

    Men are less careful about their affair than women.
    Men will have intimate affairs one or two times a week. Whereas, women go much longer than men without seeing their lover. Women may wait as long as two weeks before they have another intimate encounter with their lover.

    Here are some clues that your partner may be cheating on you. Ask yourselves these questions:

    Does your loved one make multiples trips to the office at peculiar times?
    Does your spouse all of a sudden started going to the office on weekends and holidays?
    Does it appear that your partner has gone from an average worker or manager to a workaholic who can never seem to get things done during normal work hours.
    Does your spouse all of a sudden have an influx of new clients that he or she must meet out of the area?
    Does your spouse go for hours without returning your calls?

    Has your partner lost interest in intimacy?

    Does your partner pull away when you try to give him or her a kiss?
    Does your partner always claim to be too tired when it is time to have sexual relations?
    Has your spouse started going to parts of town that he or she does not normally frequent?
    Has someone seen your spouse away from work during work hours?
    Has your spouse suddenly started purchasing new clothes, new cologne and/or new sun glasses?

    If some of this behaviour is familiar, it is time to take action!

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